These messages are the accumulation of the messages that were sent out on 
the Blue Room email list between May 1995 and June 2000.  A large portion 
of the information is directly from Professor M.A.R Barker. When the list 
members joined during the time the list was active, they agreed to refrain 
from sharing this data with non list members.  When the list ended, it was 
urged that the data be made available to non-list Tekumel fans, and it 
seemed like a good idea all around.

I only ask that if you download these digests, or have received them in 
some other way, please respect the agreements the list members made, and 
refrain from passing them around and instead point people to the Tekumel 
web site, www.tekumel.com so that they can download them for themselves, 
and see all the other material available on the Tekumel.com web site.

Many Thanks.
Chris Davis
Moderator:  Blue Room mailing list 

Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 
CC BY-NC-ND

BLUE ROOM ARCHIVE -- VOLUME 33  [21 April 1999 - 29 May 1999]

961: Questions About the Eastern Frontier
962: More Miscellaneous Questions
963: Elara hiVriddi, er hiTlakotani
964: Tsolyani Nobility
965: Plumbing on Tekumel
966: Non-human Armies
967: More Weapons and Physics
968: Pariah/Pavar Reply
969: More Weapons and Physics
970: The One Other
971: Dhich'une
972: Mitlanyal Update
973: More CD Issues
974: More Weapons and Physics
975: A Bit of Humor
976: More Library Stuff
977: Eastern Questions Response
978: Non-human Army Battle
979: Eastern Questions Reply
980: Tlakotani Character
981: Gods of the Ghatoni
982: Theban Mapping Project
983: More Elara hiVriddi
984: Tekumel.com News
985: More Pariah/Pavar Speculation
986: Proper Titles
987: Ghosts
988: The One Other Observation
989: Ssu Hypnotism
990: Machine Intelligences
*******************************

//961

[Moderator's Note:  Roger McCarthy asks about the Fenul area and the rest of]
[                   the Eastern Frontier.                                   ]

Found the recent(ish) Fenul posts interesting as I was thinking of
setting a campaign out in the 'Wild East' myself. 

Three Fenul/Chaigari questions for Andrew and the Professor:

1) Having just gone through the legion lists in Armies of Tekumel I,
Deeds and Adventures on Tekumel unless I've missed something it
strikes me as odd that Fenul appears to be the only major city in the
empire without a regular legion either based or posted there - Despite
being on a doubly exposed frontier. 

What sort of forces does the imperium maintain in Chaigari
Protectorate ? (Andrew mentions the Sakbe Road Guards and I imagine
there must also be some fairly well-organised militias) 

Is there any sort of separatist tendency analagous to the Ito clan in
the Chaka's ? - I don't have the Sourcebook in front of me, but I
can't recall any mention of notable Salarvyani-descended clans out in
the Eastern Protectorates, although I suppose they must exist and be
plotting away (no doubt rather sloppily) for the restoration of the
old regime.       

2)according to the maps the Sakbe Road from Hekellu goes east to pass
north of Ssuyal rather than looping SW to Fenul, so how is the city
linked to the empire - Is there a minor road going NE from Fenul to
join the Sakbe Road (if there is it must be pretty exposed to Ssu
attacks) and is there also a road going west across the mountains to
Sokatis and Ru and which would be the fastest and most convenient
route for travellers from the central empire ? 

Either way it must be pretty expensive to haul goods there for a city
of 250,000 people, suggesting that the plain NE of Fenul must be
pretty heavily cultivated to feed the city - Which makes it look even
odder that the empire's not extended the Sakbe Road eastwards to link
Fenul with Hekellu and provide a firm protective barrier against the
Ssu - Or is it just that three centuries is a very short time in
Tekumel ? 
  
3)Presumably the various mines in Chaigari must be one of the major
reasons the Tsolyani are out there - how do mines work in
Tsolyanu/Tekumel - are they all clan/temple/state-owned or/and are
there any independent prospectors working away a la the Treasure of
the Sierra Madre ? 

I suspect mostly the former, in which case how are they run - are the
miners mostly free labourers or slaves in some sort of Tsolyani Gulag
? - are criminals and recalcitrant slaves in terror of being consigned
to the Chaigari silver mines ?   

ROGER
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//962

[Moderator's Note:  The Professor answers some more miscellaneous Qs from  ]
[                   Martin Howard.                                         ]


>1.Why are the Tlakotani so secretive about their origins? Other
>clans/Temples etc. must have records that shed light on this matter. Or
>is it another subject consigned to the sealed stacks beneath Avanthar -
>or yet hidden for the sake of 'discretion!' After all the origins of
>many clans are obviously fabricated [not that I would attempt to heap
>scorn on such origins], so they would not care to set the dominoes
>tumbling.

The general opinion is that the Tlakotani "made themselves mighty": they
devised a "glorious history" in order to consolidate their hold over other,
older clans in northern Tsolyanu after the fall of Engsvan hla Ganga. Ask a
Tlakotani, and he/she will tell you clan origin legends all the way back to
Dormoron Plain and beyond. Some of these legends actually sound true -- the
Tlakotanis are not foolish enough to put up origins that can easily be
disproved -- while others fall into the realm of "epic poetry" (much as
Homer is not history but does tell us much about ancient Greece).

There are indeed references to the Tlakotanis in the records of other
clans, of course.  Most of these are irrelvant to Tlakotani origins but
deal with historical individuals who lived in those far-off times. At this
moment, I cannot think of a single "Tlakotani origin story" in any other
clan's records. Any story that disputed the Tlakotanis' own histories
would, of course, have been expunged.

>2.What evidence is there of the other empire/nations contemporaneous
>with the Llyani or the Three States of the Triangle? One would imagine
>archaeological finds to be limited, and of similar type with the early
>empires mentioned. How many [if any] of these contemporaries are known?
>Is it the case that any such monuments, coins, artefacts etc. are
>attributed to the known empires or remain 'unfathomable' to the
>scholars.

In the original "Empire of the Petal Throne" I focussed only upon one side
of northern Tekumel: the Five Empires and surrounding client-states. Many
of these cultures trace their origins back to the Empire of Llyan. Some
claim descent from the N'luss. A few claim older antecedents: e.g. the Mad
Ones of Hlikku, the sages of the City of Sarku, the aloof inhabitants of
Dlash.  There are indeed ruins from other cultures scattered across
Tekumel, some apparently more ancient than Llyan's kingdom. The Sunuz ruins
from the western coast of the Southern Continent could not have been built
after the climate changes that made the equatorial lands so fiery hot; they
must date from the Latter Times. The fact that the caverns beneath them are
still inhabited is interesting: who are these people, and is the modern
Sunuz language cognate with the ancient tongue written on the walls and
altars of the sand-worn old cities? There are many such ruins and
archaeological sites all across Tekumel -- it has been inhabited for a very
*long* time!

>3.Could you provide some more information on the Horo Kanghai tribe?
>Specifically concerning their styles of dress, and the Engsvanyali
>legion that was supposed to have lost its way and settled in Kilalammu.

The Horo Kanghai dress in wrappings of black cloth: a bandage-like wrapping
around each leg below the knee, another around each thigh, a kilt-like
garment around the loins, and a shirt-like tunic to cover the chest, arms,
and shoulders. A turban or headcloth of the same material is usual,
although a bare head with unkempt shoulder-length hair is not uncommon. The
women wrap teir limbs similarly, but they add a black  skirt that covers
them from waist to ankles. They leave their hair long but wrap it in a sort
of headcloth.

I don't have my histories here before me now and cannot tell you much about
the lost Engsvanyali legion that is said to have wandered through this
region long ago. Anybody else remember?

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//963

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker lets us know what finally befell Elara ]
[                   hiVriddi.  James Snead asked this question.             ]

>Perhaps the professor can clear up another loose end in recent history.
>The famed rebel, Elara HiVriddi, who was allegedly frozen in stone and
>hidden in the vaults of Avanthar more than two decades ago, is said to
>have reappeared in Fasiltum at the beginning of the recent civil war
>and so charmed Prince Mirusiya that he dallied in that city for some
>time, to the detriment of the effort to unseat Dhich'une.   It later became
>clear that "Elara" was a phantasm of some sort, sent by the the prince's
>enemies.

Yes, Mirusiya did search for Elara, immediately after his troops took
Avanthar. She had been put slightly "out of phase" with an Excellent Ruby
Eye, and when this was undone, she emerged at the exact moment that she was
put into it long ago! She looked the same, felt the same -- everything. It
was at this point that some of the last Sarku defenders of Avanthar managed
to substitute a demon look-alike for her, putting the real Elara back into
stasis in an unused part of Avanthar. Mirusiya brought her to Fasiltum,
where "she" lived until her deception was found out by the redoubtable
General Karin Missum. (I vaguely recall that Arumel hiChankolel also had
something to do with revealing her). In any case, the Prince had loved
Elara since he was a boy and she was a young woman active in the Free
Fasiltum Movement. She returned to find Mirusiya older(and hence more
sexually appealing) and more powerful and confident. He soon won her for
himself, married her, and took her into the Golden Tower with him, where
she dwells in adored glory to this day.

>Do we know any more about this episode, and what nefarious
>forces were behind it?  And now that the Prince is enthroned in Avanthar,
>has any effort been made to determine the real story of Elara's demise,
>and whether there's a block of stone in the basement with her name on it?

She never "died" -- that's the virtue of an Excellent Ruby Eye. It simply
freezes a target in exactly the same state and position it was in when it
was "shot." The target remains immobile, no breath, no heartbeat, etc.
surrounded by a very faint reddish glow. This apparently lasts nearly
forever. Once, I recall the Harbourmaster of Jakalla pulled a body out of
the muck below the eastern docks to find that it was a perfectly preserved,
living man whose enemies had ruby-eyed him and thrown him into the river
back in the times of Queen Nayari. He was of no great importance, however,
and could tell scholars little about things they wanted to know (just as
the "iceman" mummy  of the Swiss/Austria border might not be able to shed
much light on his contemporary cultures, literatures, etc.)

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//964

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers a number of questions from   ]
[                   Roger McCarthy about Tsolyani Nobility.               ]

>Roger asks a ton of questions.  I can split them up if you wish.  Let me
>know.

>I've read the previous posts on Tsolyani titles and forms of address
>and these have raised a couple of questions:

>The professor has stressed that there are relatively few titled nobles
>in Tsolyanu, however this seems to conflict with most of the
>literature I've read which gives the impression that most if not all
>generals, senior offials, high clanmasters and ecclesiastics are
>'lords' - even including those living in a relatively small town like
>Usenanu.

The use of the term "lord" has been a sore point with me for years. For a
while almost all of my players were addressing each other as "Lord This"
and "Lady That." The custom stems from D-n-D, which is set in a mediaeval
world, or perhaps from SCA (the Society for Creative Anachronisms). These
titles have thus been engraved in most gamers' memories. I tried to
discourage it because it does not suit Tekumel. A stranger who is visibly
of high-clan, high-lineage, wealthy, learned, etc. is addressed either with
the pronouns given on  p. 17 of vol. 1 of the "Tsolyani Grammar," or else
as "Horokoi" ("honourable male person") while a woman is spoken to/of as
"Hororakoi." Those of you familiar with Tsolyani grammar will know that the
"-koi" is omitted after prepositions and in certain other constructions,
and in colloquial Tsolyani, thus, one hears "Horo" and "Hora."

>Are these people really all pachukoi (or whatever)- whether because
>they are hereditary lords or because the title goes with the job ? (as
>still happens in England where anyone who achieves certain military
>and civil service ranks is automatically knighted or given a life
>peerage on either appointment or retirement).

Tsolyani usage is very different. The nation is heavily populated, so that
"lords" and "ladies" are not all that frequently encountered. Most of the
present crop of aristocrats come from lineages that are descended from
Engsvanyali or Bednalljan nobility. Occasionally the Imperium creates a new
title for someone who has done major services for the empire. Getting a
title along with a job (e.g. being granted a fief whose previous owner had
had a title) is almost unheard of. Titles go with persons and not with
property. Some of the other Five Empires have slightly different customs.

>Or does 'lord' translate a more colloquial honorific such as horokoi
>applicable to all those of high clan status or a superior social
>position (Curtis Scott's Tsolyani primer does translate the latter as
>lord but the Professor's post on forms of address specifically
>translates horokoi as 'gentleman'and contrasts it with the old
>hereditary titles).

Absolutely correct.

>A second question concerns the title of prince. In Tsolyanu there
>appear to be two varieties of prince - the imperial princes and (maybe
>just one or two) hereditary princes from other lineages (isn't there a
>Prince of Vra mentioned somewhere ?)

When Vra was an independent principality, there was indeed a "Prince" of
Vra. The title is still used by the Vrayani, but it is about as meaningful
as some British titles. The "real" princes are direct descendants of the
Emperor and one of his current wives/concubines. The Emperor traditionally
declares the children of his wives (the ones he has ritually married) as
princes/princesses and thus possible heirs to the the Petal Throne. He may
also declare children of his concubines to be princes/princesses. Normally
he does *not* grant the children of others this right. There are a few
exceptions: the current Emperor, the Living God, Mirusiya, the Lambent
Flame, recently had the wife of his half-brother, Prince Rereshqala,
brought into the Golden Tower so that he might get her pregnant and thus
please her clan and certain other factions.(She also is a babe!) Since all
of Tsolyanu is the personal property of the Emperor and the State, she had
little to say about it. Mirusiya is a strong, handsome man, however, and
she seems to have enjoyed herself. Rereshqala prudently made no comment.

>What Tsolyani title(s) does 'prince' translate and is there a
>distinction similar to prinz/furst in Germany - The former was a royal
>or imperial prince, the latter a grade of hereditary noble ranking
>somewhere below elector (kurfurst)and duke.

The word for "prince" is "kolumssankoi." (The "-ssan" is from Engsvanyali
"ssanel" "powerful person, potentate"). "Princess" is "kolumssanrakoi."
There is no term corresponding to German "Furst." Most Tsolyani titles are
hereditary, as said above. Of course, titles such as "Governor" 
("jaithulenkoi") are not "noble"; they *do* go with the  job and are
transferred automatically from person to person when the job is
transferred. Thus, the "Governor" of Jakalla loses the title when he
accepts a different post elsewhere.

>Are only those Tlakotani who are offered and accept the gold titled
>prince ? and what happens to the children of princes who either
>decline to take part in or fail in the Kolumeljalim ? Are the children
>of Surandano or Rereshqala disqualified forever from the empire by
>their parents choice, or if Mirusiya proves heirless will selected
>siblings, nephews and cousins be given another chance?

All children of the Emperor recognised by the Imperium (the Emperor, the
Court of Purple Robes, the Chancery, and the Omnipotent Azure Legion) are
titled "Prince" or "Princess." The Emperor may, however, return an infant
to its clan and declare it "non-royal." This is done sometimes for
defective infants, or for those who might create problems later. Rumour has
it that Emperor Hirkane Tlakotani did this with the daughter of a slave to
whom he had taken a fancy. The truth of this is not known.

The children of princes who have given up the gold, or those who have lost
in the Kolumejalim, lose their princely status and cannot stand for the
Kolumejalim. Only *direct* first-generation descendants of a current
Emperor have that right. It does not descend to grandchildren, cousins,
etc.  If an Emperor is childless, the Omnipotent Azure Legion (and other
interesterd factions) may insert a "ringer": putting an "heir" into the
Golden Tower who was really somebody else's child, sometimes arranging the
deaths of all who might know otherwise, sometimes grandly admitting the
substitution and declaring that it is what is best for the Empire. The
importance of genetic descent and primogeniture is thus of less interest to
the Tsolyani than it was in mediaeval Europe.

>If all these descendents of imperial heirs are also princes then after
>60 generations or so there must be many thousands around (as there
>were after a much shorter period in Russia where ALL descendents of
>the Varangian Prince Ryurik, the Lithuanian Grand Dukes and - oddly
>enough - of Genghis Khan were styled Knyaz and the upstart Muscovite
>grand princes were forced to invent a bogus genealogy descended from
>the emperor Augustus to distinguish themselves from other princes of
>more exalted Ryurikid descent).

Interesting.  In Tsolyani society the descendants of Imperial heirs are
*not* princes/princesses.

>As I've just rolled up one as a character I'm also particularly
>interested in how these other Tlakotani clansmen make a living and how
>they interact with each other, the authorities and other Tsolyani
>citizens.

If you have rolled up a prince/princess, you must first determine whether
the person is a "known" prince, living openly with the title and properties
that entails, or whether he/she is "unknown": a child brought secretly out
of the Golden Tower and entrusted to a clan or lineage. In the latter case,
the child himself/herself may not be told of the real heritage and may grow
up, as Emperor Mirusiya himself did, to become a soldier. He knew nothing
of his real origins and addressed (and still addresses) his adoptive father
and mother by parental titles. Such a "hidden" prince remains under the
watchful eye of the Omnipotent Azure Legion, which clandestinely arranges
for his teaching, training, and interests -- and protects him from
disclosure and from other, hostile factions.

>The Sourcebook and Adventures in Tekumel I clearly specifies that the
>clan includes many 'middle class merchants and farmers' and barring
>recent imperial princes it is significant that not a single 'ordinary'
>Tlakotani appears amongst the several hundred generals, ecclesiastics
>and high officials named in the Sourcebook, Deeds of the
>Ever-Glorious, Adventures on Tekumel and the various Temple articles.

This is true. Most wealthy Tlakotani live lives of luxury, splendor, and
elaborate ritual. Their poorer clanbrothers and sisters work on their clan
lands, run businesses, and engage in other activities.  A few do accept
posts with the Imperium, but there is a slight feeling of  snobbery: "We
are Tlakotanis, not Imperial lackeys. Let others toil as governors of this
and mayors of that!"  I could probably go through my materials and cite you
one or two Tlakotanis who have defied this proscription. There are not
many, however.

>Am I right in suggesting that all Tlakotani who are not imperial heirs
>are effectively excluded (or exclude themselves) from posts in the
>state and temples?

I'd say it is more of a case of "exclude themselves" (or perhaps they feel
that society does not look on this with favour, and they hence exclude
themselves). Some of the Emperors have, of course, handed titles and posts
over to half-brothers and half-sisters: e.g. Prince Rereshqala, who gave up
the gold, is now High Prefect of the Chancery; Prince Taksuru was given the
title of Head of the Palace of the Priesthoods, etc. Some never accept
these posts and prefer to live on their own on a stipend: e.g. the Princess
Arimala, who dwells in Tumissa; Princess Ma'in Kruthai, who lives in
Jakalla or Tumissa among her harem of strange sexual partners; or Prince
Surundano, who prefers to work as a sort of file-clerk in Hauma, rather
than take any part in the trappings of Empire. These people are still
called "Prince/Princess." but these titles are only a courtesy.

>This could be either to ensure that the number of potential qualified
>heirs is kept within manageable proportions or/and because having a
>Tlakotani serving in one's office, temple or legion would create
>intolerable problems of precedence and etiquette for everyone
>concerned? (this obviously wouldn't apply to imperial heirs who either
>enter the legion or temple at an exalted level, enjoy extremely rapid
>promotion, or are effectively incognito until revealed)

Yes. This is so.

>This would certainly explain the lack of Tlakotani generals, governors
>and high priests and it would certainly be logical for the state to
>deal with the children of its surplus princes by granting them estates
>and pensions which would gradually be sub-divided amongst their
>descendents until they are reduced to 'middle-class' farmers and
>traders (rather as has happened in those European states where the
>nobility did not practise primogeniture and where republican
>governments largely kept them out of the military and bureaucracy).

This is also more or less true. Usually non-Imperial children (nephews,
nieces, cousins) are granted small stipends to which their parents may add
more property for their comfort. These stipends usually end after the first
generation, but the estates may endure for a few more generations. Such a
child also may have to add substantially to his/her inheritance in order to
be considered prestigious and important.  This can be done by earnings
from lands, the military, business, etc.

>Finally, what sub-lineages exist within the Tlakotani clan itself -
>presumably all Tlakotani must claim descent from a specific emperor or
>empress (or from numerous emperors and empresses if the clan is
>strictly endogamous and Tlakotani only marry Tlakotani), so do the
>descendents of 'good' emperors form more highly respected sub-lineages
>than those of the legendary 'bad' emperors and are the descendents of
>recent emperors higher or lower in status than those of the more
>ancient ones.

There are indeed several popular sub-lineages of the Tlakotani. There is no
emphasis on the *persons* of previous ancestors (i.e. a Sarku worshipper
would not necessarily honour Durumu the copper Blade of Sarku more than any
other previous ruler), but there are clan and sectarian pressures that make
little cliques of Tlakotani loyal to one another -- or distant and somewhat
hostile.

Various of the "hidden" heirs prefer to retain thair pre-Imperial clans and
lineages and drop the "Tlakotani" identification until after they have won
the Kolumejalim: e.g. Prince Mirusiya remained "hiVriddi"until ha entered
the Golden Tower. He is still spoken of as a Vriddi by his old friends and
military comrades. This also confuses the system somewhat.

>My own suggestion is that recent imperial descendents are probably
>richer as their ancestral estates or stipends will have to support
>fewer people, but that they usually have less formal status than the
>often relatively impoverished descendents of older emperors (although
>somehow I can't see the imperium allowing even the most obscure
>Tlakotani to fall into total penury and disgrace the imperial name).

Generally true. A few Tlakotani are indeed very poor, usually because they
have committed crimes or expressed anti-Imperial sentiments and have thus
been socially "cut off." The Imperium tends to take care of those who
quietly go about their business. These people supplement their stipends and
small estates with wealth from other activities. Eventually, if they wish,
they may become potentates in their own right.

Sincerely,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//965

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers a question about plumbing on  ]
[                   Tekumel.                                               ]

>Does anyone, even the very rich, have running water in their homes?

Yes, Some of the higher clans have small streams running through their
clanhouses. These are filled with splashing children , toy boats, and
watchful mothers in some houses, while in others the stream is bordered
with beautiful plants, mosaics, statuary, and ornamental trees.  There is
running water, too, in some middle-class or lesser-wealthy houses in
regions lucky enough to have a stream nearby. Water is piped in, pumped up
by various devices, and channeled through the house to an outlet.

>How do people clean themselves?  Do they have servants pour water
>over them and wash them?  Do servants catch the water in drains and reuse
>it for the lower class people to bathe, until it's unfit for any use?

Some houses have simple bathrooms: chambers of tile, stone, etc. in which a
bather squats on a small stool while servants pour water (hot, cold, then
medium-warm) over him/her, while others anoint them with perfumes and oils.
Ve-paste is used commonly as soap. It is a greenish sort of jell. We once
had a player character who thought it was food and ate some of it!

>How about waste? Is it collected in urns and carried out of the city
>or is it drained into sewers?

Sewers run under most of the great cities. These are separate from the
tunnels of the Tsu'urum labyrinths.  They are pretty smelly places, and I
cannot recall a player character who ever had a job in one of them.

>Are there aquaducts running thru channels under the cities?
Some. Jakalla does.

>Are there mushroom farms in the underworld?

Never saw one. I have seen six-foot mushrooms who specialise in eating the
visitors, however... There may also be such farms, of course; mushrooms are
somewhat of a delicacy in Purdimal.

>Do all clan houses have extensive basements for storage and cool
>rooms in the summer.

Usually, yes.

>Is concrete commonly available for building?

Yes. There are various types, as one finds here.

>Just some fundamental questions.  If there are any more details about
>basic things that anyone can tell me, that would be appreciated.

>Delbert

Regards,
M. A. R. Barker
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//966

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker comments on some questions from Peter ]
[                   Huston about Non-human armies.                         ]

>Thank you. I do recall an article in an old issue of the Tekumel journal
>that described a battle between the Mu-ugalvavyani and the Ssu. The Ssu had
>an army that included Black and Grey Ssu, Hlyss, Serudla, and Qol, as well
>as some lightning bringers. IT was quite an interesting conglomeration. The
>article led one to believe that this was on "real Tekumel."

I think the battle you describe was "fictional": i.e. not *real* Tekumel.
Somebody wanted to display his mniature figures. Black and Grey Ssu have
joined together; the Hluss usually have no allies, although an occasional
Ssu is sometimes met; the Serudla fight for anybody, human or nonhuman, who
gives them food and other amenities; Serudla can only be *trained* by the
Ghatoni, however, and are otherwise not reliable as disciplined soldiers.
I am surprised to find the battle included Qol, who mostly prefer to remain
underground in the vicinity of tombs. They might join in if a human/Ssu
battle were fought in their vicinity, however, perhaps just to lunch on the
bodies of the slain, perhaps to block the humans or Ssu from invading and
looting their territory.

>I am curious to know what sorts of equipment and allies and such one might
>find in a Hlyss raiding party for example.

Swords, halberds,crossbows, and occasional odd-shaped "guns" that are
removed from some human (?) arsenal of the Latter Times. I don't think the
Hluss can construct these. There are also a number of aircraft that are
used to transport troops, fire from the air, and even drop heavy objects on
the foe.  These are also devices of the Ancients. I think the Hluss have
access to large quantities of fuel cells, judging from the number of
aircars seen in recent battles.

>The sorts of forces one might build and put on a table-top and still be
>reasonably authentic.

I'd enjoy seeing your display!

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//967

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker continues commenting on Marco Subias's ]
[                   information on weapons.                                 ]

A few additionl comments (the last limits of my knowledge...) about your
weaponry questions:

>One question though. I mentioned that the epee and the rapier were not
>weapons of war, but rather blades carried for civil duels and self
>defense. Are there weapons on Tekumel that are not awkward to carry,
>but carried only in warfare, or weapons only carried off the field of
>battle? If so, who might use such weapons.

Most Tekumelani weapons are intended *both* for war and for personal
defence/duelling. The wide blades with all the points and curves work very
well against men with plate cuirasses, helmets, shields, etc. A single
longish blade with a sharp point (like the epee) is not all that useful
against an armored opponent. What is needed is a way to get past that
defence. A common fighting technique is to catch the opponent's armour,
shield, or clothing with one of the protrusions on one's sword, pull him
off balance, then skewer or chop him. I happen to have a mediaeval
war-hammer here: a 20 inch wooden handle that has a tripartite iron head:
one side has a rounded hammer head, a thick metal spike on the other, and a
reinforcerd spike extending out from the business end. Getting a knight out
of his metal beebedees must have been like trying to open a can of tuna --
with the tuna fighting back!

>Also, I take it that Chlen hide swords are usually pictured with very
>wide and elaborate blades because the swords are lighter than the same
>size metal sword would be, and theus have to be greater in volume in
>order to have the impact of a denser sword? Or am I all wet here?

I think this is a good conclusion.

>I have also heard (no expert here) that bronze swords were as much crushing
>weapons as cutting ones, due to an inability to hold a good edge, that some
>weapons cut by chopping (like machetes or axes) with through the quick
>impact of weight, and some cut by slashing (large knives and possibly
>katanas). Any speculation on what way is most similar to the way Chlen hide
>swords cut?

Chlen-hide can be sharpened, and it is strong enough to hold up under many
blows and parries. In its best forms, it is rather like the material used
for airplane plastic. With the proper tanning chemicals, it can be moulded,
carved, etc. Of course, a good portion of the scallops, fancy curves,
points, etc. of the sword in the Five Empires are due to the vanity of the
owner! The fancier the sword, the more likely to find an aristocratic
over-dressed owner who has never fought in his life!

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//968

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker comments on John Nowicki's Pariah/Pavar ]
[                   observations.                                            ]

[Moderator's Note:  John Nowicki shares some observations about the Pariah ]
>[                   deities and Pavar's Pantheon.                          ]

>>tourists; they were from a race called :the "Silver Suits": who inhabit a
>>conflux of Planes out by the Pylons of Other-Space. They are quite
>>technological but have only occaional interest in interfering with other
>>interplanar adventurers. They do send out military forays, however, when
>>they think their interests are being compromised.  They are not robots but
>>living beings (of several types), who spend their lives in sealed suits
>>that provide tools, weapons, food and drink, etc. I don't know much more
>>about them since they usually remain so far from Tekumel Prime.
>
>Hmmm...this leads me to one of my theories on things. It strikes me that
>(at least some) of the Pariah Dieties may not be as intrinsically inimical
>as has been reported. I mean, the Stability/Change bunch are two sides of
>a very limited spectrum of options, in that neither really wants things to
>change too much. Sure, political systems may slightly adjust, some other
>peripheral areas...but radical change, such as total desruction, or the
>wrenching socio-political effects of technologogy are right out on both
>sides.

We know that the One Other is not as inimcal as the Goddess of the p.b. (to
mention her carefully), nor as aloof as the One Who Is.  There is a purely
Tekumelani opposition between the two alignments of Pavar's pantheon, but
there is probably a larger conflict between beings such as the Goddess and
the whole gamut of Pavar's deities! Wheels within wheels...

>Meanwhile, at almost every instance of an encounter with Pariahs, or their
>supporters, we see something very different. Very technological Silver
>Suits who don't behave in a irrational destructive mode are associated
>with the Pariahs. In Man of Gold, we have a servitor bring what appears to
>be a devastating (and suspiciously similar to technological) weapon to
>bear that has the potential to radically change the Five Empires. The One
>Other actually aids the other nine in capturing Ksarul. Flamesong has a
>servitor that, while called a mage, has a Mihalli controlling structure
>that has a suspicious resemblence to a scientists lab (and he personally
>has a very rational/scientific mindset). There are more of the like.

From the multiplicity of Planes one indeed sees all sorts of beings:
everything from Silver Suits to mindless amoeba-like critters. The Planes
Beyond contain creatures of many, many forms. Huge tentacled sacs of weird
fluids and substances (e.g. the Demon Horodai, who likes humans and has
befriended Lord Sanjesh hiKirisaya) to herds of large, buffalo-like beasts
that can go stampeding across a landscape and mash you into the ground! In
a multiverse of infinite possibilities, everything is possible.

>So, are the Pariahs these nihilistic, destructive, inimical beings that
>have been portrayed, or something else? Could they, and their attitudes be
>inimical to _the long established way Tekumeli way of life_? After all,
>technology has two edges...it has caused a radical change in societies for
>the better, allowing for more efficient developemnt of resources and
>spread of information (with the corresponding socio-political effects),
>lonfger lives, etc... But Hiroshima became a radioactive hell pit, and
>entire cultures & societies that couldn't adapt fast enough died outright.

At least *one* of the Pariahs is fiercely hostile to human interests: the
Goddess. The One Other seems to belong to a  faction of these mighty beings
that opposes *all* of Tekumel's gods as a single unit. The One Who Is
remains alone and aloof in his (Its) dark cavern, from which it only
occasionally emerges or sends out sentient fog or vapour to act on events
in the outside world.

>Is it possible that the Pariahs represent (or are trying to propagate)this
>creative/destructive force? After all, this would be a major threat to
>almost every important force in Tekumel, from the Gods to the political
>institutions. I'd be pumping the propaganda machine if I were them.

Pretty close! It may be, however, that you are giving Tekumel more
importance than it really has in the scheme of things. There are an
infinity of worlds, and, as the Goddess' servants will tell you, many exist
that are more succulent and toothsome than Tekumel!

>Just rampant speculation...I don't know if the Professor would care to
>comment on this, if for no other reason that to state how off base this
>all is.

You're on the right track -- or one of them.  You ought to chat with some
of the theologians/philosophers on Tekumel. They set my head to swimming!

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//969

[Moderator's Note:  Roger McCarthy adds some interesting tidbits on weapons ]
[                   and fighting arts.                                      ]

Slightly off-Tekumel but anyone interested in the rapier/fencing
thread would really enjoy an exhibition in the Metropolitan Museum in
New York on fencing manuals of the 15th-18th century (I think it's
called something like 'academies of the sword). 

Quite apart from the manuals themselves which illustrate really well
the relatively slow development of duelling and fencing as we now know
it there's also an excellent selection of rapiers and smallswords on
display - with some of the rapiers being 49 inches long and obviously
designed for slashing as well as thrusting - a very long way from the
modern foil or epee. 

While on this subject, the manuals did raise a couple of questions
about how well FRP Games represent real combat. It appears that 16th C
noblemen spent a great deal of time and money learning to parry with
not only main-gauches arruche/Florentine style but also with cloaks,
batons of wood and pathetically small bucklers - however I've yet to
see an RPG system that would make it worthwhile to try and fend off an
enemy's sword with a cloak or little stick of wood...  

[Moderator's Note:  Hah Hah!  You've never played one of my favoreet games, ]
[                   called En Garde!  One of the attacks is called "Wave    ]
[                   Hat" and I confess that I have so much fun doing it that]
[                   I usually end up doing quite poorly.  :)                ]

Anyway I believe the exhibition is on for a couple more weeks and is
well worth catching if you're in NYC - as is the Museum's huge
collection of European, Japanese and Middle Eastern arms and armour -
I've certainly not seen as good a collection in any European museum. 

[Moderator's Note:  I have sat on this for a week or 2, so you'll have to   ]
[                   attend quickly if it hasn't left already.               ]

Roger   
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//970

[Moderator's Note:  New list member Sandy Petersen writes the following.   ]
[                   I have opted to post the message to the list since it  ]
[                   contains lots of commentary (I sent the previous 69    ]
[                   messages this afternoon,  and already a response.  We  ]
[                   have a quick reader in our midst.)  :)  Professor,     ]
[                   please go ahead and pick up those areas you wish to    ]
[                   comment on.                                            ]

I have queries about the dread inimical species -- Hluss, Ssu,  
Shunned Ones, etc.

Professor Barker states:
>It is not possible to talk to these races about "gods" or "magic"  
>because communication is impossible, lacking, or always refused. As  
>far as I know, there have been NO exceptions.
	Okay. It's clear that the inimicals have no interest in  
humanity besides the rather basic one of "How do we exterminate  
them?", but this is not the same as to say that there is a complete  
absence of communication.
	I seem to recall a group of humans being kept as  
prisoner/pets by the Black Ssu in an officially sanctioned campaign  
(sorry, can't quote chapter and verse on this). In addition, the  
Hluss have human contacts through which they vend Zu'ur to our  
species. In addition, there are the so-called "neutral races", who  
have contact with the hostiles, and also with humanity -- can  
nothing be learned through an intermediary.
	It strikes me that a clever researcher could somehow manage  
to contact one of the non-human races via a number of potentially  
efficacious (admittedly dangerous) techniques. I propose that  
someone attempt one of the following three methods and report back  
to the Blue Room Mailing List at once as to the results, if he  
survives:
	1) use magic to transform oneself into the physical  
appearance of a neutral species (one not hostile to the Ssu) and  
contact them in the form of a merchant or other individual whom it  
is unlikely they'd slay at once.
	2) infiltrate the Zu'ur drug culture and make one's way  
high enough up the ladder to actually receive deliveries from the  
Hluss. Go and meet them.

[Moderator's Note:  One of the solo adventures sheds some light on this.    ]
[                   Check them out, but I am sure the Professor will have a ]
[                   word or two to say on this.                             ]
[                   In any case there is not some meeting between the human ]
[                   and Hluss (they provide the Zu'ur).  If I remember cor- ]
[                   rectly, the people receiving the shipment pile a bunch  ]
[                   of stuff on the shore, the hluss ride up on one of their]
[                   hive ships, take the goods, drop the zu'ur and skee-    ]
[                   daddle.  Now, I am not privy to how they set up this    ]
[                   system of barter, nor how they set the prices...  But I ]
[                   am not sure that anyone does.  Professor....            ]

	3) raid the Hlutrgu swamps and bring back some of their  
tadpoles (or whatever the hell their young 'uns look like). Raise  
them in big tanks with only humans as companions. I'm sure they'll  
still be mean and nasty, but perhaps they can learn the human  
tongue, and be studied. I doubt this would work with baby Ssu or  
Hluss grubs, but the Hlutrgu at least seem to be vertebrates.

>It is suggested that the Chlen must be genetically-engineered,  
>because their hide can be used to make stuff almost as hard as  
>bronze.
	Note that cuirbouilli, ordinary leather boiled in wax, can  
be used to make a pretty damn hard substance. Maybe not suitable for  
weapons, but it sure worked for armor.

Professor Barker (no biologist he) wonders
>Is it not equally possible that the Chlen were just a lucky find:  
>an animal that possessed this unique quality?
	Biological organisms on earth produce a number of  
substances that are as tough as or harder than bronze. Or steel, for  
that matter. A tungsten steel hip joint doesn't last as long nor  
can it stand the strain of a plain ordinary bone one. Don't be  
fooled by the simplicity of snapping a dried or cooked bone. A fresh  
bone is mighty sturdy. I read an FBI report once that indicated a  
common event during hammer assaults is the breaking of the _hammer_  
on the victim's skull! Cheap modern tools, I suppose
	Spider silk is _much_ stronger than steel, and it is  
produced as a liquid that hardens into a polymer upon exposure to  
air! The only problem with using spider silk as super-kevlar armor  
is that the damn things are cannibalistic so they can't really be  
conveniently domesticated.
	I see no reason that the Chlen may not have naturally  
evolved to produce some sort of potent chitin-like substance. There  
is no need to postulate genetic engineering. Even if we decide that  
human intervention has taken place to increase the amount of armor  
produced by Chlen, it need not be "engineering". Ordinary selective  
breeding can do the trick. Consider the difference between a shih  
tzu and a greyhound to see the amount of variation that good old  
ordinary breeding can produce. Given the amount of time the folks of  
Tekumel have had to breed stuff, it would have been possible (note:  
I don't believe this) to have bred the Chlen from a _human_ stock,  
let alone from a reasonable alien beast.

>No idea. I wish I knew more chemistry! The stuff is not really  
>"shell-like" or "chitinous" in feel -- rather more like thick  
>layers of calloused "skin."These peel off in sheets of varying  
>thickness.
	Don't sweat the chemistry, prof. This would be organic  
chemistry of an alien world -- i.e., exceedingly bizarre and filled  
with tricks and complicated enzymes and compounds we don't have any  
concept of. Even our own world's organic chemistry is full of  
surprises.

>Can sentient beings compress speach, say using fractal algorithms, 
>or is this something that only a computer can do?
	Human beings compress speech all the time, and _much_ more  
successfully than computers. A human being talking, gesticulating,  
and making facial expressions delivers on the order of megabytes of  
information each second.
	Sample human info compression: Your friend turns to you and  
says, "Have you seen that movie? You know, with the guy." More  
often than not, instead of saying, "Huh?", you know what he's  
talking about. Of course, an outsider watching would be utterly  
confused.


Sandy Petersen
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu

//971

[Moderator's Note:  I am sitting in the bathroom (it's really big and has a]
[                   desk in it) on vacation in sunny Florida.  I'll try to ]
[                   get out 5 or so messages per day.  Here is the first   ]
[                   from David Bailey on Dhich'une's flight from Avanthar. ]

>Yes, Prince Dhich'une did flee Tekumel's Plane to -- as just 
>recently discovered -- a Plane occupied by the Demon Lord 
>Ru'utlanesh.

Given the description of Ru'utlanesh in BOEB, I am pleased for him.  
What would you advise to those who wished to travel to pay Dhich'une 
their respects?

>He  took only loyal followers with him.

Lunch, I presume, for their host?

-=Midori Ito=-
(known on other less interesting planes as David Bailey)
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//972

[Moderator's Note:  Andy Lorince gives some Mitlanyal news.  I asked for a ]
[                   corroboration from Bob and include a summarization of  ]
[                    his answer.                                           ]

 i spoke with TOME today 4-13-99 about mitlanyal. they have not printed
yet and want to be sure to have enough orders to cover their costs.
their budget for the book includes 100 pages with 20 illustrations
target price is about $25.00.
 i reaffirmed my initial shippment of 12 copies but can change that if
there is intrest. contact me directly at alorince@yahoo.com.
andy lorince

--

According to Bob Alberti, TOME has not contacted him regarding these plans.  
As Mitlanyal was over 200 pages, maybe they mean 100 front and back pages 
for their finished product.  
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//973

[Moderator's Note:  I have gotten numerous comments (below) about using any ]
[                   type of proprietary format for any CD project.  I agree ]
[                   that open formats and tools should be used.             ]

Joe Saul sez.

Let me second (third?) the statement that we should not use platform-specific
technology on the CD-ROM.  Many of us (the Professor included) use Macs.

Joe
--

Alan Brain sez.

There are even some of us who still use Windows 3.11/Win32s, and so
can't use any of the Win95 or 98 stuff, only (some) NT. .avr I CAN read,
as I have a Beta Media Player. But I agree that to cut out people who
aren't using this week's patched version of Microsoft's Latest Product

--

Zane Healy sez.

>May I humbly request using a technology which doesn't "orphan" any
>particular platform?  It might shock people out there, but not everyone
>on the planet uses Microsoft Windows.  There are many technologies which
>don't rely on proprietary Microsoft products [which offer no technical

I must agree on this from several standpoints.  The admitadly one of the
main ones being I don't use Microsoft Windows.  However, I do have access
to, and am somewhat familiar with MS Windows.  I'm not 100% sure what the
product in mind is, but I gather that at least part of it has something to
do with converting tapes to a computer readable audio format.  Where I'm a
little confused is that apparently graphics are also involved.

I'd like to point out that this is a product that Tekumel fans will want to
be able to access years from now.  Using proprietary Windows products mean
that it will be usable for a year, maybe two, then most people will have
upgraded and won't be able to use it.

Also, we've already seen the passing of the 8" and 5.25" floppies, the 3.5"
floppies are on thier last legs, having already been fazed out <grrr> on
the new Mac's.  We are now seeing the emergence of DVD's on computers, and
it stands to reason that CD's will soon be replaced on all new computers
with DVD's.  I believe that you can read standard CD's in a DVD-ROM, but
what about the next drive after it?  What I'm saying in a rather long
winded manner is that it should be possible to transfer the data on the CD
onto another form of media, so when the CD itself no longer becomes
practical, the data will still be able to be accessed.

There are lots of good formats for graphics that should be available for
the forseeable future.  Audio is a bit tricky, however, I feel that MP3 is
a fairly safe choice, especially if you include a directory with the source
code and binaries for players for various platforms.  I've found that MP3's
offer excellent near-CD quality, and are more than up to the task of being
used for audio from tapes.

Please, anyone that looks into doing something like this think long term.
If anyone has any questions about the issues involved in moving the data
across many generations of systems I can probably offer some insights into
the subject.

Zane
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//974

[Moderator's Note:  Thomas Grable adds to the Weapons and Physics thread.  ]

>Also, I take it that Chlen hide swords are usually pictured with very
>wide and elaborate blades because the swords are lighter than the same
>size metal sword would be, and theus have to be greater in volume in
>order to have the impact of a denser sword? Or am I all wet here?

>I have also heard (no expert here) that bronze swords were as much crushing
>weapons as cutting ones, due to an inability to hold a good edge, that some
>weapons cut by chopping (like machetes or axes) with through the quick
>impact of weight, and some cut by slashing (large knives and possibly
>katanas). Any speculation on what way is most similar to the way Chlen hide
>swords cut?

My take on this is that, like the elaborately crested, ornamented, and
tinted armors, the weapons are possessed of such extravagent design because,
being light, they can be made so without making them overly heavy and
cumbersome.  The Tsolyani are a stylish people, and seem (from my limited
knowledge) to avoid spartan simplicity.  Their social structure is one of
complexity and elegance; so too are their weapons and armor.  One could
easily make a simple Chlen hide sword; it would likely be broader, and
perhaps thicker, than an equivalent iron or steel blade, to make up for the
difference in density, but the scalloped edges (as the old Dave Sutherland
illustrations showed) and decorations would be stylistic choices.  A
scalloped edge is good for cutting fibrous material (including muscle
tissue), but would be hard to work into a steel sword.  Chlen hide is formed
while soft, then hardened, so is easy to work into elaborate patterns.
I figure that Chlen hide can be made into varying densities; if it is too
light, it won't work for a good cutting weapon, like a sword or axe.
Thrusts would be fine, but you need some mass to make a good chopper.  Many
medieval axes were "bearded," in that they had a steel edge welded to an
iron core.  A Chlen hide axe might need something to give it more mass, if
the stuff can't be made heavier than plastic.  My guess is that the
armorer's guild knows how to make it light or heavy, at their choice.
Anybody else have ideas on this?

[Moderator's Note:  Thomas makes one comment in passing that I must elaborate]
[                   on.  I absolutely love the drawings that Dave            ]
[                   Sutherland did for Tekumel.   I would have loved to see  ]
[                   lots more of his work!                                   ]

Thomas
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//975

[Moderator's Note:  Scott Maxwell jokes a bit about a certain coincidence.  ]

>Midori Ito had a house renyu at his country lodge (actually a small
>vinyard

Did this Midori Ito have a sex change operation, learn to figure skate, and
become an Olympic athlete in our own reality?  Just curious.
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//976

[Moderator's Note:  John Schippers writes about one of his character's    ]
[                   experiences in a Library on Tekumel.                  ]

A year or so back in Joe Saul's Jakallani Nights campaign I had an
interesting time with a Ksarul temple library. This temple had "open
stacks" for the use of all priests and lay priests, though there was an
unspoken knowledge that tomes of real worth were elsewhere. One could pay
the staff to bring your book to you, or try to find it amongst the stacks
which were seemingly in completely random order. Obviously it would be
better to know how to find books on one's own, so as not to suffer from
the censorship of unknown factions. My character loves challeges so was
determined to work this out. (and after at least one serious attempt on
his life he did so) Interestingly the first book on the shelf was a
well-known travelogue of the pilgrammage to Hmakquyal (sorry about the
spelling) After some careful observation of the library's users, I noted
that younger priests would often begin looking for a book by glancing at a
certain shelf. Older priests did not need to do so. On that shelf was a
single large work on Hmakquyal. It became clear that this was the
"starting point" of the encoded catalogue system. After additional
observation, it also became clear that the number of books on shelves and
the arrangement of shelves themselves (while seemingly random) was a
complex numerical derivation of the number 8. It was unfortunate that the
books still seemed of random topics within this arrangement. (Joe did not
make these discoveries particularily easy and it took the character's down
time from several seesions) Apparently, as subtle as the character tried
to be, his observations and constant presence in the library did not go
unnoticed. An older priest who sweeps the floors berated him for wasting
his time and that the truly pious would study the scriptures. The
character realized after several sessions that this was itself a clue and
he began to note the texts that younger priests carried with them. He was
not surprised to find that many (even the older priests) carried a small
book of daily scriptures and prayers (soemthing that you would expect
priests to carry about). After obtaining a copy (a small adventure in and
of itself) some study and experimentation, revealed the numerical system
of chapter and verse headings to be the key to the "subject headings" of
the library itself. This opened the library use up to the character. Later
he took the time to calculate the number of texts in the library, versus
the number allowed for by the numerical system and discovered that there
are several hundred works in a "subsystem" within the overall system. For
these he has yet to discover a key.

I hope folks find this interesting. I think Joe did a fine job of
capturing the flavor of a Ksarul temple library.

John
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//977

[Moderator's Note:  Andrew Lorince follows up on questions about the Eastern]
[                   frontier with information from his Fenul Campaigns.     ]

> Found the recent(ish) Fenul posts interesting as I was thinking of
> setting a campaign out in the 'Wild East' myself. 
 
> Three Fenul/Chaigari questions for Andrew and the Professor:
 
>1) Having just gone through the legion lists in
>Armies of Tekumel I,
>Deeds and Adventures on Tekumel unless I've missed
>something it
>strikes me as odd that Fenul appears to be the only
>major city in the
>empire without a regular legion either based or
>posted there - Despite
>being on a doubly exposed frontier. 

in the context of the armies list fenul was considered to be controled
by salarvyani nechesh of the fist of iron. i however found little
presence when i entered the city. currently fenul has three authorized
legions: the legion of shattering of ssuyal; 30th imperial heavy
infantry with 7 cohorts. the legion of smitting of the east; 43rd
imperial medium infantry with 10 cohorts. the legion of the win of
arrows; 35th imperial archers with 6 cohorts. there in addition a
number of auxillary cohorts made up of shen, ahoggya, hlaka, pachi lei
and pei choi. a fourth legion has not been recognized by the imperium,
they refer to them selves as the legion of the dark worm. a medium
legion following the dark trinity. their records indicate they trace
their history back to the three kingoms of the triangle. the legion was
suposedly sent here by emperis shara su to fight the ssu until they or
the ssu are destroyed.

> What sort of forces does the imperium maintain in Chaigari
> Protectorate ? (Andrew mentions the Sakbe Road Guards and I imagine
> there must also be some fairly well-organised militias) 

there ar some 10 to 15 cohorts of milita scattered around the province
most are not used outside their immediate home areas.

> Is there any sort of separatist tendency analagous to the Ito clan in
> the Chaka's ? - I don't have the Sourcebook in front of me, but I
> can't recall any mention of notable Salarvyani-descended clans out in
> the Eastern Protectorates, although I suppose they must exist and be
> plotting away (no doubt rather sloppily) for the restoration of the
> old regime.       

some of the salarvyani actualy prefer the tsolyani imperium the taxes
are lower.

> 2)according to the maps the Sakbe Road from Hekellu goes east to pass
> north of Ssuyal rather than looping SW to Fenul, so how is the city
> linked to the empire - Is there a minor road going NE from Fenul to
> join the Sakbe Road (if there is it must be pretty exposed to Ssu
> attacks) and is there also a road going west across the mountains to
> Sokatis and Ru and which would be the fastest and most convenient
> route for travellers from the central empire ? 

there are a number of minor roadways througout the area but they are
often interdicted by ssu  or natural disasters.

> Either way it must be pretty expensive to haul goods there for a city
> of 250,000 people, suggesting that the plain NE of Fenul must be
> pretty heavily cultivated to feed the city - Which makes it look even
> odder that the empire's not extended the Sakbe Road eastwards to link
> Fenul with Hekellu and provide a firm protective barrier against the
> Ssu - Or is it just that three centuries is a very short time in
> Tekumel ? 

the governor is in the process of building a new road through the
mountains. it is expected to connect to the sakbe from hekellu to
sirsum about halfway betyween the two. there is a third rate sakbe that
goes along the ssu tsolysnu boarder and connects up with the road
thhough sirsum but their is thought to be nothing of interest that way
and the road is poorly maintained. in addition to the plains around the
city of fenul there many fertile valleys in the area more than enough
to support the city and the province.

> 3)Presumably the various mines in Chaigari must be one of the major
> reasons the Tsolyani are out there - how do mines work in
> Tsolyanu/Tekumel - are they all clan/temple/state-owned or/and are
> there any independent prospectors working away a la the Treasure of
> the Sierra Madre ? 
 
> I suspect mostly the former, in which case how are they run - are the
> miners mostly free labourers or slaves in some sort of Tsolyani Gulag
> ? - are criminals and recalcitrant slaves in terror of being consigned
> to the Chaigari silver mines ?   

mines are usually clan owned.  a lot of the mining involves surface
pits or ocassionaly small shallow tunnels. miners are a mix of slaves
and skilled craftsmen who are well paid. ocassionaly prisoners are used
but they are not considered productive enough. a few persons have been
assigned to the pits to work of debts but this to is not normal.
yuninash hi'abcholbel, governor of fenul
-----
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//978

[Moderator's Note:  Andrew also comments on the battle Peter read about. ]
 

i believe the battle you describe was one run by tekumel games personal
for demo purposes at a convention some where. i remimber being an
observer at the game. i don't reminber if i participated. these battles
were primarly set up to demonstrate a set of rules.
andy lorince
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//979

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker replies to Roger's questions about ]
[                   the Eastern region.                                 ]

>Found the recent(ish) Fenul posts interesting as I was thinking of
>setting a campaign out in the 'Wild East' myself.

>Three Fenul/Chaigari questions for Andrew and the Professor:

>1) Having just gone through the legion lists in Armies of Tekumel I,
>Deeds and Adventures on Tekumel unless I've missed something it
>strikes me as odd that Fenul appears to be the only major city in the
>empire without a regular legion either based or posted there - Despite
>being on a doubly exposed frontier.

I hardly class Fenul as a major city. It is too small and economically
weak to establish a legion acceptable to Avanthar. The estimate of
100,000 - 200,000 inhabitants (as on the map) may be "optimistic"
(given to the Census-takers by some clever governor in order to apply
formore tax money for his region). Mountain villages and other
"suburbs" may also have been included for the same reasons. I also
doubt whether Salarvya would be very happy with a Tsolyani legion
raised just over their northern frontier!

Having said this, I should add that there are indeed Tsolyani troops
based in Fenul. Sakbe Road Guards, (including a cohort or two of "such
"Guards" who look suspiciously like elite soldiers. These men claim
they were posted to Fenul by the Emperor Hetkolainen in 2,340-1. They
have nothing much to do with the locals and only polite courtesies for
the current Governor. Their task is to patrol the high mountain passes
and the road up from Fenul tp Sirsum.  There are also a good number of
market police, temple guards, and other irregulars, plus the governor's
own personal guard. None of these would be able to defend against a
concerted Salarvyani attack up from Koyluga or Khum, of course.
Fortunately, the Salarvyani are fragmented and busy elsewhere, They
tend to ignore Fenul, except as a thriving trade partner: the Tsolyani
offer timber, stone, minerals and chemicals, bow-wood, mountain furs, a
little iron, gold and silver in exchange for Salarvyani manufactured
items, cloth, perfumes and oils, grain, fruits and vegetables. These
commodities are carried by caravans of slaves north and south along
the well-patrolled Sakbe Road from Khum.

>What sort of forces does the imperium maintain in Chaigari
>Protectorate ? (Andrew mentions the Sakbe Road Guards and I imagine
>there must also be some fairly well-organised militias)

As stated above. More than a few Cohorts would set off alarm bells in
Khum and Koyluga, reminding the Salarvyani of the invasion of Hejjeka
II in 1,325-39. The region around Fenul is very mountainous, however,
and nobody wants to fight a major war out there. The Ssu do not often
come out to give battle, but they would certainly enjoy meeting human
stragglers!


>Is there any sort of separatist tendency analagous to the Ito clan in
>the Chaka's ? - I don't have the Sourcebook in front of me, but I
>can't recall any mention of notable Salarvyani-descended clans out in
>the Eastern Protectorates, although I suppose they must exist and be
>plotting away (no doubt rather sloppily) for the restoration of the
>old regime. 

There are such groups, usually split up and factionalised too much to
be very dangerous. There is an organisation of "Old Fighters" living in
Koyluga, who constantly machinate to regain Fenul. They are nearly a
thousand years too late, of course. They work for "Salarvyani
linguistic purity" (no Tsolyani words or expressions), trade only with
Salarvya and not northward to Hekellu, pure Salarvyani religion (no
Avanthe/Dlamelish split, but only Shiringgayi), etc. Their current
leadeer is an aristocratic "Princess" of Khum, who has never visited
Fenul at all! She is:

Zeshsha Tiqinnu Thirreqummu; worships Shiringgayi. From Khum;
40 years old. Sister and mistress of Lord Kurek Tiqinnu Thirreqummu. A
tall woman, rather heavy (for Tsolyani tastes), tightly curled
ringlets, big breasts, broad hips; strong and aggressive. Her legion,
the Nchesh of the Unsheathed Blade  (SL. p. 12). is composed of Aridani
women soldiers, and it is said she is a Lesbian with female mistresses
of her own. Her troops have fought well against the Ssu and the
Pechani. Now she mostly stays at home in Khum, where she governs the
city with intelligence and justice. She speaks Tsolyani fluently.


>2)according to the maps the Sakbe Road from Hekellu goes east to pass
>north of Ssuyal rather than looping SW to Fenul, so how is the city
>linked to the empire - Is there a minor road going NE from Fenul to
>join the Sakbe Road (if there is it must be pretty exposed to Ssu
>attacks) and is there also a road going west across the mountains to
>Sokatis and Ru and which would be the fastest and most convenient
>route for travellers from the central empire?

As stated above. The main traffic is south into Salarvya,but there is a
well-travelled secondary road running north from Fenul to Hekellu. This
coincides with the heavy black border-line on the TOME map. There is
also a smaller, perilous road around the eastern flanks of Kakri
Midallu Peak to reach Sirsum.  Well-guarded caravans are the only
travellers along these roads, because of wandering Ssu parties.  Groups
of as many as 50 humans have been massacred by the Ssu in recent
years.

>Either way it must be pretty expensive to haul goods there for a city
>of 250,000 people, suggesting that the plain NE of Fenul must be
>pretty heavily cultivated to feed the city - Which makes it look even
>odder that the empire's not extended the Sakbe Road eastwards to link
>Fenul with Hekellu and provide a firm protective barrier against the
>Ssu - Or is it just that three centuries is a very short time in
>Tekumel ?

The valleys all around Fenul are fertile enough to produce various
grains, fruits, and other commestibles. Meat (except for game) is
scarce, but the streams produce myriads of small bluish fish (called
Khisa in the local tongue), which are tasty but which stain the tongue
and lips a blackish-blue.. The Fenulyani are thus jestingly referred to
as "Blue Mouths," and their women are called by another modification of
this same epithet..

The Tsolyani have extended themselves eastwards to Fenul for commercial
reasons. They have never shown much interest in holding territory and
building out there: the terrain is too difficult, there are too few
economic gains, the hostile Ssu (and Salarvyani) would make a campaign
too costly, etc.

>3)Presumably the various mines in Chaigari must be one of the major
>reasons the Tsolyani are out there - how do mines work in
>Tsolyanu/Tekumel - are they all clan/temple/state-owned or/and are
>there any independent prospectors working away a la the Treasure of
>the Sierra Madre?


THis is true. Gold, silver, mineral, and a few small iron mines do
exist in the peaks and valleys of the northeast. These are largely
state-owned, although they are operated by local clans, who hire miners
from elsewhere along with their own clan members. There some
independent prospectors, but the risks of meeting a band of Ssu (or
Salarvyani!) offer too many risks for this to be popular. (Meeting
Salarvyani is considered even worse than running into Ssu; at least the
Ssu kill enemies quickly.)

[Boy, I can second that.  Chris.                                         ]

>I suspect mostly the former, in which case how are they run - are the
>miners mostly free labourers or slaves in some sort of Tsolyani Gulag
>? - are criminals and recalcitrant slaves in terror of being consigned
>to the Chaigari silver mines? 

This is indeed so.  The inhabitants of Chaigari purchase strong slaves
in Sokatis, Fasiltum, Ferinara, and other city of the Empire, load them
with goods, and march them to Fenul, where they work in the mines until
they die. Treatment is fairly good, even so; all one has to do to gain
enthusiastic obedience is to show them the gates and offer to put them
outside at night.

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
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Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//980

[Moderator's Note:  Roger comments more on his Tlakotani character.       ]

Many thanks to the professor for his illuminating answers to my rather
lengthy series of questions about Tsolyani nobles and princes, which
also laid to rest any worries I had about Mirusiya's ability to
generate imperial heirs !   

My own Tlakotani character was randomly generated using 'Growing up in
Tekumel' and all I know about him at the moment is that he is from Bey
Su, is of rather middling abilities and has a generous if not
munificent stipend - I'd more or less assumed that he was distantly
descended from a relatively ancient emperor but based on the
professor's post it might be more interesting to make him a descendent
of a more frequent one and flesh out the family history by discovering
why great-grandfather failed to attain the empire and how his
descendents feel about it and have made the difficult transition to
life outside the imperial family. 

ROGER
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
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Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//981

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers Paul Roser's questions about the]
[                   Gods of the Ghatoni.                                     ]

>Besides Ghe (the Sun), what are the names of the other Ghatoni nature
>dieties?

>From "The Excellent Names of the Almighty Gods of Yan Kor" by Ksamanduish
the Traveller: [Note that this scholar was a Mu'ugalavyani, and he sneers
at almost everything that does not belong to his tradition.]

"In Ghaton the Gods themselves are transformed into travesties of nature:
the sun, the moons, the planets, the winds, and the rain. The sun is Mtol ,
the green moon Gyeshla [in Mu'ugalavyanu; Tsolyani Gayel] is his
slave-mistress, Nkels; the red moon Goshia [Tsolyani: Kashi] is his second,
younger mistress, Nkesht; the wind from the sea that brings the fish
harvest is Lord Yeshk, etc. None of these is powerful; yet all must be
appeased with bowls of blood, food, and strong liquor. 'As drunken as a
Ghatoni at prayer,' as our adage puts it.  None of the Ghatoni deities has
the least interest in human life and values; otherwise there would surely
be an end to the Ghatoni species!"

So says Ksamanduish.. He was only barely familiar with Ghaton, having spent
years studying Yan Kor, and his statements are thus both partial and *very*
biased. He did not even know of some of the basic principles of Ghatoni
legend. The Ghatoni, for example, recognise *two* "sun-gods: Mtol, who is
the Bright Lord of the Day, Illuminator of the Waters, and Freshener of the
Crops, and Qhe or Ghe, who is the Slayer, the Fire, the Burning Heat of
Summer, the Rising Blaze of the Cremation Bier, etc. Qhe is that "sun" most
similar to the Vimuhla of Pavar's pantheon, while Mtol shares some features
with Hnalla and perhaps with Avanthe.

There are also minor gods of the 12 Directions of the Wind, a major
wind-god in northern Ghaton, who brings storms, tornadoes, cold rain, hail,
and other unpleasantries: Ma'ul the Hero Who Cannot Be Placated. Some of
these have human forms; others display beast-features, or fanciful demonic
aspects. To describe them all would require a small pamphlet!

>What is the N'luss name for Vimuhla? (or names if there are tribal
>differences...) Do the N'luss also worship Chiteng?

The N'luss today call him Vam or Vamal (the "a''s are not the "a's" of
"father" but that of "cat.") Chiteng is also popular; he is named Khtan
(with the same "a"). THere are other, local N'luss deities but none as
mighty as these two. There are some tribal differences, of course: the
eastern N'luss (from around Nrotlu) call him Vamhalom (halom = "powerful,
mighty"). This is possibly the source of the "h" and "l" found in the name
"Vimuhla" throughout the Five Empires. The eastern N'luss, particularly
those from the mountains, call him Vam or Vem, sometimes joined with
otherhonorific epithets. In some places he is simply a
fire/lightning/burning deity; in others he is more personalised, with
cycles of story-poems, pictures and iconography, and even a family!

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//982

[Moderator's Note:  Bill Cumberland shares some info about the Theban mapping]
[                   project.  Professor Barker already knew about and has    ]
[                   enjoyed it so we thought we'd pass it along to everyone  ]
[                   else.                                                    ]

A friend told me about the Theban Mapping Project. It is a wonderful
resource that has maps and descriptions of every tomb in the valley of
the kings in Egypt. The largest is KV5. The applicability of these to a
Tekumel city of the dead is obvious. It is definitely worth checking
out.

http://www.kv5.com/html/home.html

Bill Cumberland
wwc@tidalwave.net
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//983

[Moderator's Note:  Joe Zottola offers up some more tidbits on Elara hiVriddi.]

To clarify a matter,.
It was Arumel Hichankolel who revealed the false Elara..(with the help of
the Temple of Vimuhla) The temple had implanted a device/spell into Arumel
that would dispel the illusion of Elara from the Demon..(with out Arumel's
knowledge) Arumel was brought before Murisiya & Elara and the Demon was
revealed..The prince was whisked away & Karim  Missum dispatched the
Demon...Arumel was put in the dungeon & later freed.....

One more thing,
Prince Mirusiya was not told of the reality of the false Elara
The Temple of Vimuhla replaced the demon with one of their own in the
appearance of Elara...The real Elara was not revealed until
she entered the Golden Tower in the guise of Ijena the wife of Arumel
Hichankolel...
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//984

[Moderator's Note:  Web site updates from Peter.  These are 2 weeks old.   ]

Greetings Tekumel fans!

At last tekumel.com gets its first set of maps - the western half of the
main continent, including Tsolyanu, Livyanu. Mu'ugalavya, Milumanaya and
Yan Kor! Now I'm going to take abit of a break ...!

Go to <http://www.tekumel.com>
Navigate to the Eye of Opening the Way and check the main Navigation Wheel
to visit the new section.

The new section is, unavoidably, a bit heavy on load times but I've kept
the graphics as small in size as possible. Additionally, you need
Javascript on and a recent browser to enjoy it properly - I make extensive
use of rollovers to reveal extra information. Make a website designer happy
and make sure you have the latest version of your browser! If you discover
any anomalies in the display of the site please let me know so I can fix
them.

I am also interested in whether enough people are interested in purchasing
new full colour printed map of Tekumel in this style. It's a big job and
needs some capital, so I will only start on it if I can garner enough
definite interest. Please email me if you think you would be a buyer of
such a product.

If you'll forgive a small one-off piece of personal advertising, I have a
large selection of secondhand Macintosh computer games in perfect condition
for sale. Here's just a few ... Bad Mojo, Carmageddon, Redjack, Diablo,
Fallout, The Daedalus Encounter, Zork Nemesis, The Journeyman Project II
and III, Starfleet Academy, Timelapse ... enough games to give you RSI and
get your friends saying amongst themselves "Whatever happened to ...?"
I've set up a website so you can peruse this great selection of games ...
<http://www.universalhead.com.au/macgames>. Just think of it as a way to
support your tekumel site! ;)

Hope you enjoy the maps everyone, and as ever, comments, suggestions and
contributions are very welcome.

Best regards,
Peter Gifford
-------
Sorry folks, the new stuff is in The Eye of Illuminating Glory section,
along with the History, Races, and Gods sections.

I've had a couple of people say the popup window hasn't got anything in it
when it pops up - this is a NetScape problem (sigh ...) with loading
content into a single frame ...

Anyway, won't bore you with the technical details - it should be fixed now!!

Best regards,
Peter
-------
Sorry to swamp you with emails everyone but Netscape browsers are giving me
some real headaches with this popup window in the Lands section. There may
be a few anomolies for those of you using Netscape until I get it sorted
out.

However, Internet Explorer 4+ works fine and, in my humble opinion, is the
far superior (and faster) browser ... not that I want to start an argument
or anything !   ;)

Thanks for your patience!
Cheers
Peter
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
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Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//985

[Moderator's Note:  Scott Maxwell puts forth his theories on the Pavar/   ]
[                   Pariah situation.                                     ]

As a lover of all things Eschatonic (even though I don't know how to spell
that word...), I have particularly enjoyed John Nowicki's speculation on the
Deities of Tekumel.  So, without further ado, I'll give my impressions of
what's "Really" going on...  (of course I'm probably totally wrong, but like
the often mentioned Theologians and Philosophers, I won't let the Truth get
in my way.  This is especially true since the Prof. isn't talking much.

Anyhow, here is my take on things.

Pavar's pantheon are all a collective single being of immense power that has
fractured into 10 seperate gods.  The Cohorts are servants of the "greater
god."  These 10 gods can meld of divide as needed in some nebulous
incomprehensable manner that I don't quite understand, so Hrsh may, in fact
be Karakan, Vimhula and Ksarul.  I don't quite understand it, so I ain't
going to try to explain it.

The Goddess of the Pale Bone, is a nasty thing that is determined to destroy
everything.  She is as advertised.

The One Other is a monotheistic deity, or at least he wants to be.  He
opposes Pavar's pantheon because they claim to be gods when he should be the
only god around.

The One who Is is a god of ultimate status quo.  He just wants to be left
alone and doesn't want anyone raining on his parade.  If you bug him, or do
something that might bug him, he'll crush you.  If you leave him alone,
he'll leave you alone.

Of course this doesn't address all of the myriad of gods who may be aspects
Pavar's pantheon or independant gods.  I dunno.

That's my two cents.  I'd love to know which is right and which is wrong.
That way I'll rethink my theory until I get it 100% right then I'll work on
details!  But I think the professor is to cagy for that. :)

Regards,
Scott Maxwell
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//986

[Moderator's Note:  George Hammond comments some more on the thread about ]
[                   the proper use of titles.                             ]

--snip--
 
>The use of the term "lord" has been a sore point with me for years. For a
>while almost all of my players were addressing each other as "Lord This"
>and "Lady That." The custom stems from D-n-D, which is set in a mediaeval
>world, or perhaps from SCA (the Society for Creative Anachronisms). These
>titles have thus been engraved in most gamers' memories. I tried to
>discourage it because it does not suit Tekumel. A stranger who is visibly
>of high-clan, high-lineage, wealthy, learned, etc. is addressed either with
>the pronouns given on  p. 17 of vol. 1 of the "Tsolyani Grammar," or else
>as "Horokoi" ("honourable male person") while a woman is spoken to/of as
>"Hororakoi." Those of you familiar with Tsolyani grammar will know that the
>"-koi" is omitted after prepositions and in certain other constructions,
>and in colloquial Tsolyani, thus, one hears "Horo" and "Hora."


I've been wondering about this as well.  I am playing a tirrikamu of
temple guards in James Maliszewski's Plain of Towers game
(http://www.addr.com/~rpghost/tekumel/index.html for the curious), and as
one of low folk on the social totem pole, my character has lots of
proprieties to keep in mind. To avoid too many "my lord"s, I've been using
"your excellency" or "your eminence" for superiors generally, "your
sagacity" for specific scholar-priests, and "noble sorceror" or "noble
priest" as appropriate.

I've thought about direct translations of the Tsolyani, e.g.:  "your
perfect piety (piousness?)", "your victoriousness", "your divine
reverence", but some of these seem rather clumsy ("your spirit
seekership"?), and some are difficult to convert (the "you of profound
submission" for instance).

I'd appreciate any other suggestions.  

regards,

George
aka Omel hiKirisaya of the Grey Cloak Clan, Tirrikamu in the Guardians of
the Sojourner
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
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Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//987

[Moderator's Note:  Roger McCarthy asks about ghosts.  I believe we may have ]
[                   covered some of this ground before.  I grepped through   ]
[                   and found numerous references to ghosts in the past, but ]
[                   not all your questions are answered.  Hopefully the Prof ]
[                   will chime in.  (I'll be travelling back home tomorrow   ]
[                   and may not be able to send anything but if I can, it    ]
[                   will be late tomorrow night.                             ]

I've noticed several references to ghosts and other non-corporeal
spirits in previous posts but can't find anything in detail about them
in the Sourcebook or the TOME material. 

Can the Professor enlighten us on how spirits interact with the living
on Tekumel's plane - presumably whichever part(s) of the soul decides
to hang around usually have some particularly good reason for doing so
(a traumatic death, betrayal or whatever) and I believe that Priests
of Belkhanu/Qon and Shamans can in some sense summon and communicate
with specific spirits. 

The NW frontier gazetteer mentions a couple of haunted locations and
comments that these are particularly dangerous on nights when the two
moons are full, while if I remember correctly there's also a reference
to an entire ghostly Sakbe road which manifests on moonlit nights
somewhere in the Sourcebook.   

How common are such manifestations and how might a GM handle them -
for instance can Tekumelani ghosts possess victims or be bound into
objects by sorcerers and used as a portable power source, can they
remember and use any form of sorcery that impacts on the material
world, are there Tekumelani equivalents to succubi/incubi who can
drain other beings pedhetl, do priests of Belkhanu or other deities
have the power to 'exorcise' such revenants etc 

BTW the New York Metropolitan museum exhibition on fencing and
duelling I mentioned in message 969 is open til September 26 1999
according to their website 

Roger
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//988

[Moderator's Note:  Andy Lorince chimes in on the One Other and Thomas's    ]
[                   balance theory.                                         ]

>There has always been a general undercurrent in talk about the One Other
>that It is not like the others, particularly the Pale One. Perhaps we
>should question some of these ideas, before they take hold and Pariah
>worship stains the world once more...
 
>I think a lot of the One Other's activities can be understood if we think
>of It as being opposed to LOSING whatever struggles are going on in the
>spheres of the gods. While She Who Must Not be Named is the kind of player
>who goes all out to defeat her opponents and win or even draw (ie destroy 
>everything) so long as no one else gains the victory.
 
>Meanwhile, the One Other is content to wait for a weakness in the opposing
>side(s). Thus It moves against Ksarul when it appears that the God is
>going to `win'; It will also move against the other Pariahs if it appears
>that they (and this means The Goddess from the point of view of
>short-lived mortals) are going to succeed in consuming a plane.
 
>This, of course, does not make the One Other `good' and it should be
>remembered that It wants the game to continue only so long as It is not in
>a position to win it. At THAT point the worshippers will find that loyalty
>is not always rewarded! But as usual, humans are suckers for the
>short-term gain (especially when the long-term may be measured in ten's of
>millennia--but then again it may not be).

>Thomas Wothington.

this is begining to sound like some rpg's ive been
involved with or observed with the one being gm.
ouch !! its been a long day .
andy lorince
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//989

[Moderator's Note:  In going forward to the new format, we're probably going ]
[                   to stop pre-sending questions to be answered to Professor]
[                   Barker.  He'll pick up the messages directly from the    ]
[                   list and answer them as a followup message.  Bob Dushay  ]
[                   asks a question about the Ssu and their hypnotic power.  ]

A small question about the Ssu: Is the hypnotization power based on magic? 
Does it still work in a magically barren area?

--Bob Dushay
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//980

[Moderator's Note:  Roger comments more on his Tlakotani character.       ]

Many thanks to the professor for his illuminating answers to my rather
lengthy series of questions about Tsolyani nobles and princes, which
also laid to rest any worries I had about Mirusiya's ability to
generate imperial heirs !   

My own Tlakotani character was randomly generated using 'Growing up in
Tekumel' and all I know about him at the moment is that he is from Bey
Su, is of rather middling abilities and has a generous if not
munificent stipend - I'd more or less assumed that he was distantly
descended from a relatively ancient emperor but based on the
professor's post it might be more interesting to make him a descendent
of a more frequent one and flesh out the family history by discovering
why great-grandfather failed to attain the empire and how his
descendents feel about it and have made the difficult transition to
life outside the imperial family. 

ROGER
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.
